Discussion » E-Discussion #4 - The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models
E-Discussion #4 - The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models
Description
Minigrids have been deployed in several developing countries for decades to provide access to remote and rural communities. These low voltage electricity networks supply power from renewable and non-renewable distributed energy resources and range from few kilowatts to few megawatts in size. Recently, ‘microgrids’ or minigrids with advanced control and communication systems have attracted the interest of developed countries seeking to improve reliability, resilience, efficiency, and penetration of renewables. The 'Anchor-Business-Community' (ABC) models are affected by reliability, resource allocations, and economic competitiveness of power systems. Trends and changes in minigrids and microgrids sectors will have implications for ABC models. This discussion will focus on minigrids and microgrids covering technologies, business models, and policy and regulatory environments.
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The discussions will be facilitated by Mr. Gunjan Gautam, ESMAP, World Bank
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Gunjan Gautam has been involved in the renewable energy and energy access sector since 2007. His experiences range from working as electrical engineer in microhydro power and small solar home system deployment projects to contributing in technology and policy research of numerous multilateral agencies. At present, he works in SEGEN and ESMAP joint initiative on grid modernization and smart grids. He is currently developing a brief on minigrids and microgrids focusing on the evolving technological aspects.
The Anchor Business Communities (ABC) uniquely brings together three different electricity consumer groups - anchors such as telecom towers that value reliability and power quality, small businesses such as agro-processing mills, carpentry workshops, internet cafes, etc. that depend on affordable supply, and communities that are eager to get access to electricity. ABC business models create opportunities for rural electrification entrepreneurs to differentiate their products and services and improve their financial performance. This discussion complements previous discussions that focused on innovative business and financing models for rural electrification.
E-Discussion#4: The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models is an attempt to encourage interactions between experts and non-experts from minigrid, microgrid, and rural electrification sectors to shed light on technological, business, and regulatory aspects of minigrid and microgrid solutions.
Please participate openly in the discussions, share your views, ask questions, and gain insights from the expert contributors.
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Congratulations to the World Bank and the organizers for a timely discussion on micro and mini grid.
Providing electricity to geographically distant or rural areas is critically important for any society. Several studies indicate that the long term cost to society of not providing electricity is much higher than the cost of providing it pretty much regardless of the technology. This is very clear in developing countries where access to electricity represents not only access to an energy supply to meet fundamental needs, but also a means for access to information and hence to education --the only mechanism to bring people out of poverty. The inter-dependencies of access to electricity, information, education, and development must be carefully designed for the program to be successful. The realization of minigrids can be greatly enhanced by private participation or participation of an anchoring program. The rules of the game must be clearly stated regarding revenue and value streams of the program and benefits to the parties. A win-win-win situation for investors, the government (and related agencies) and the population is possible.
Once a business model (which shall include a development model) is set up, the technology issues must be addressed. Regarding the question of weather to grid or not to grid, I must mention that networked systems are a natural consequence of requirements of reliability, option, and economy. Technologies must hence be compatible and have options for an eventual interconnection with the traditional (ac) grid. Thinking long-term is important. The cost of power electronics and inverters has come down significantly and plug and play components for connection of a DC minigrid to an AC system is feasible. Controlling and coordinating the grid operation is required for an interconnection and that requires sensing, communication and control. A proposition that could facilitate eventual interconnected operation is that the anchor program provides a basic communications platform for electricity infrastructure control.
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When are mini grid economically better options than grid extension?
Opening remarks by Bhola Shrestha
Mini grid or off grid systems are economically better options to electrify isolated rural areas with small populations (few hundred households).
Example of Nepal Nepal is a mountainous countrywith thousands of isolated, small rural communities living far away from the road. The prospect of electricity gri reaching these isolated communities (and also road) is remote as grid extension is cost prohibitive. As a result off grid micro hydro power systems has flourished in Nepal during the last two decades. There are thousands of off grid systems in Nepal providing electricity to group of households to entire villages of few hundred households. These systems are owned by individual, group, entrepreneurs, community based organization.
This service delivery supported by development of micro hydro sector
The micro hydropower sector in Nepal evolved during the last two twenty five years with the development of local turbine manufacturing industry, provision of some subsidy from the government, credit facility from local bank. There are dozens of consulting firm that provide survey, feasibility study and design of micro hydropower plants. The construction and installation are carried out by qualified manufacturing companies and installation companies.
Pilot projects in Liberia
The experience of Nepal can be relevant to other countries with similar situations. Liberia has one of the lowest rural electrification rate (2%) in the world. There is no grid outside Monrovia, capital of Liberia. Liberia has small, rural communities scattered around the country, which makes grid extension cost prohibitive. USAID’s Liberia Energy Support Program, implemented by Winrock International aims to demonstrate sustainable rural electrification through off two micro/mini hydropower (1 M and 15 kW each) and two biomass power plant (60 kW and 35 kW each).
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Microgrid technology is mature and can support small individual microgrids that are individually scalable, can work with a central grid system when needed and/or interconnect with other microgrids to create a network of microgrids. The basic issue is how to develop a low cost energy source based on locally familiar technologies such as automobile engines that can be easily maintained.
The basic microgrid source can be plug-and-play and not dependent on a central controller. When needed, an individual can walk to each source and change its operation point performing the function of a central controller. Each source should be small and have the same control functions. Adding more sources without additional engineering is key to expanding the microgrid. Adding sources should be no more complicated that adding additional loads.
See the article on microgrids from IEEE power and Energy Magazine published in 2008.
Since this article was published there has been an explosion in the acceptance of this technology, but this is a result of over 12 years of research, development and commercial implementations. I am very confident that this can become a powerful technology for providing electrical access to remote and rural communities, but we must keep it simple and maintainable.
It is interesting to look at how provision of electricity historically developed. In Scandinavia the national grid came into being much later than localized mini-grids in towns and villages. In other words a town in Denmark would be electrified through locally established means, typically local businesses and prominent citizens would form a company or a cooperative to generate and distribute electricity. Later national (first regional) grids would expand and absorb the earlier established entities. The few still independent, locally (these days municipal) owned, distribution companies in northern Germany and Denmark are remnants of this way of electrification. The irony is that when looking at options for under-electrified countries in Africa and elsewhere we tend to ignore how it really happened in the north and assume that grid-extension is the way to go. Yet as already pointed out mini-grids can work well and are often more cost effective. Moreover, consumption of electricity is an "acquired taste" and often (one of) the core cases for grid supply namely that lots of energy is needed for transformation of the local economy may only come into existence after a fairly long time of having access to electricity.
Thank you for participating in the World Bank Institute’s “E-Discussion #4: The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models.”
The discussion has been divided into three sessions.
Part I: Evolution of Minigrid Technologies: Is minigrid the best solution for your ABC model? May 15 – May 24
Part II: Minigrids Business Models: Under what conditions a minigrid is economically viable? May 25 – June 4
Part III: Policy and Regulatory Environments: How can they affect your project? June 5 – June 15
We will begin the discussions with Part I: Evolution of Minigrid Technologies focusing on issues such as:
“To grid or not to grid?”- When are minigrids economically better options than grid extension for improving access?
What are minigrids and what are microgrids?
Can minigrids and microgrids be long term solutions for electrification? Can they be expanded to meet the growth in demand? What are the technical constraints for wider deployment of minigrids and microgrids?
How do minigrids and microgrids reliably supply electric power? Can they help in mitigating rotating load shedding and contribute to resource adequacy?
Can minigrids and microgrids integrate with bulk power grid? What are the advantages and disadvantages? What are the constraints?
We are pleased to introduce the expert contributors for Part I: Evolution of Minigrid Technologies. In this session, expert contributors will share their views on the technical aspects of minigrids and provide their insights on issues raised by all other participants.
Robert H. Lasseter, Emeritus Professor, College of Engineering, University of Wisconsin- Madison
Bob Lasseter received his Ph.D. in Physics from the University of Pennsylvania in 1971. He worked for General Electric Co. until he joined UW-Madison in 1980. His research is on the application distributed energy resources and power electronics to utility systems. This work includes microgrids, FACTS controllers and DC systems. His research over the last 13 years has been focused on microgrids. This includes the basic concepts, technical solutions and commercial implementation. He is the technical lead of the CERTS Microgrid Project, a Life Fellow of IEEE, and IEEE distinguished lecturer in distributed resources.
Bhola Shrestha, Deputy Chief of Party at USAID's Liberia Energy Sector Support Program, Winrock International
Bhola Shrestha worked for Intermediate Technology Development Group (now Practical Action) Micro Hydro Program in Nepal in various capacities since 1990. From 1995-99, he was Program Manager for EU/DFID funded Nepal Micro Hydro Sector Support Program. He contributed to the design of Micro Hydro Component of Energy Sector Support Program (ESAP), which was the start of micro hydropower scaling up program in Nepal in 1999. He continued to carry out consulting activities for ESAP from my consulting firm Energy Systems during 2000-2005. During 2006-2010, his involvement was more on grid connected small hydro systems in the private sector in Nepal and tea industries in East Africa. From 2011, he has been working with Winrock International in Liberia in the USAID’s Liberia Energy Sector Support Program in the planning and implementation of pilot off grid mini and micro hydro systems.
Terry Mohn, CEO, General Microgrids and Chair, Minigrids/Microgrids Working Group, The Energy Access Practitioner Network, UN Foundation
Terry Mohn is CEO of General MicroGrids, an international microgrid consultancy and developer. He also is Managing Partner of CleanSource Energy Partners, LLC, an international renewable energy project developer. He is also Program Director of the Global Microgrid Center, a non-profit microgrid test and certification center. He is Chairman of the United Nations Foundation Microgrid Working Group and presently serves a three year appointment as the U.S. Department of Commerce's federal advisor to National Institute of Standards and Technology in its Smart Grid Federal Advisory Committee. Terry has 30 years' experience in large-scale system architecture, business strategy, and technology investment strategy. Terry is an advisor to the US Department of Energy for smart grid and advisor to the California Energy Commission for demand response and emerging technologies."
Santiago Grijalva, Associate Director for Electricity Strategic Energy Institute (SEI); Georgia Power Distinguished Professor Electrical Energy, Georgia Tech
Santiago Grijalva is the Strategic Energy Institute Associate Director for Electricity and Associate Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Dr. Grijalva is a leading researcher on power system control and management architectures. He has pioneered work on de-centralized and autonomous power system control, renewable energy integration in power and unified network models and applications. He is currently the principal investigator of various future electricity grid research projects for the US Department of Energy, ARPA-E, EPRI, PSERC as well as other Government organizations, research consortia, and industrial sponsors. His graduate degrees and postdoc in electrical engineering are from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
Anders Pedersen, Energy Specialist, AFTG1, World Bank
Mr Anders Cajus Pedersen is an energy specialist with The World Bank based in Nairobi focussing on RE solutions for East Africa. He has a particular interest in integration of RE into weak national grids and in off-grid applications of RE. He is a graduate in business studies and economics from Copenhagen Business School.
Xavier Vallve, Associate Manager, Trama Tecno Ambiental and Member of Alliance for Rural Electrification
Xavier Vallvé studied Engineering at the University of Waterloo in Canada and received a M.Sc. degree in 1979. In 1986 he co-founded in Barcelona, Spain the engineering and consultancy firm Trama TecnoAmbiental, S.L. where he currently is associated partner. He has more than 25 years of experience in renewable energy rural electrification projects for distributed generation both grid-tied to the national grids and autonomous RE hybrid technology for islands and isolated villages. He has been involved in feasibility studies, engineering, project management and commissioning of many PV rural micro grids in isolated villages in Africa, Asia and South America. He has also been an active member in international codes and standards committees on this subject. He has been project director or lead consultant for private and government clients and also for projects by UNDP, UNOPS, UNIDO, UNEP, AECID, IDB, WB, EC and other agencies. He is director and lecturer of the Master degree “Master en Ingeniería y Gestión de las Energías Renovables” at IL3 (University of Barcelona).
We sincerely thank the expert contributors for participating in this discussion.
Thanks to all the participants for sharing their thoughts. We have quite a collage of ideas in the discussion. Terry set the framework for the discussion emphasizing on terminology, grid independence, scalability, and smart grid and integration. I will summarize thoughts from the discussions.
On terminology,
Xavier was of the view that terms ‘minigrids’ and ‘microgrids’ refer to equivalent systems.
Joseph pointed to UNIDO’s size based distinction of hydropower
Bhola indicated the isolated nature of minigrids
Robert highlighted ‘plug and play’ feature that enables adding more sources without additional engineering
Terry emphasized on controlling load as well as generation
On grid independence and integration,
Robert mentioned individual scalability, ability to interconnect with central grid, and ability to network with other microgrids
Terry described possibility of vertical growth and horizontal growth and rule in both autonomous and grid integrated operations
Santiago urged us to think long term and consider the compatibility for eventual interconnection to the network, the natural consequence of requirements for reliability, option, and economy
Xavier and Bhola both implied (mildly) the isolated/ islanded operation
In the discussion we have a case where smaller systems were aggregated to form larger network (Ander’s comment) and a case where they were displaced by grid extensions (Xavier’s comment).
My observation is that there is a lot of confusion among the practitioners on what a microgrid should be and do?
Practitioners in developing countries are more familiar with the ‘minigrid’ terminology – minigrids for providing access to isolated communities. Changes in the definition of micro-hydro (implying minigrids with micro hydro generation) in Renewable (Rural) Subsidy Policies provide interesting insights. Reclassification of these minigrid systems placed them in different subsidy brackets- a case of real investment implications of policy definition.
Definitions
2000
2009
2013
Pico hydro
upto 3kW
upto 5 kW
upto 10 kW
Micro hydro
3kW to 100 kW
5 kW to 500 kW
10kW to 100 kW
Community/ Cooperative Mini hydro
N/A
N/A
100 kW to 1000 kW
Grid Connected Mini hydro
N/A
N/A
Recognized in 2013.
Practitioners in the developed countries are more familiar with the ‘microgrid’ terminology – microgrids for integrating distributed energy resources and for improving reliability. However, there is no clear consensus on what a microgrid is and should do. A recent paper from Georgia Tech (Design Considerations for Microgrids with Energy Storage by Andrew D. Paquette and Deepak M. Divan) surveyed 20 most frequently cited microgrid papers and found
13 of them to desire Seamless Islanding
13 of them to see primary use of inverter interfaced generation
16 of them to include storage for fully dispatchable inverters
17 of them to emphasize energy arbitrage
I kindly request the participants to deliberate on resolving this conundrum. As we expect these low voltage networks to grow both vertically and horizontally, should we define them on the basis of functions they support and components they use.More important question is what different business value propositions do these differently defined low voltage networks represent in the A-B-C Business Models.
Following is a simple illustrative example to classification to further the discussions. Is such a classification necessary? If yes, how do to this better?
Microgrid V.1 – Single Rotating Generation forms Grid, inverters operate as current source
Horizontal Growth Potential - Moderate
Ability to add load – moderate, constrained by parameter of rotating generation
Ability to add source – moderate, constrained by parameter of rotating generation
Vertical Grid Potential – Moderate
Ability to connect with grid – moderate, contingent on control interface of rotating generation
Ability to seamlessly disconnect – low to moderate, constrained by horizontal growth potential
Optimization of generation and load resources
Ability to dispatch generations – low to moderate
Ability to dispatch load – low to moderate
Value Propositions - ??????????????????????????
Microgrid V.4 – Peer to Peer Connected Inverters form grid, droop controlled inverters, central microgrid controller
Horizontal Growth Potential – High
Ability to add load – High
Ability to add source – High, constrained by storage options
Vertical Growth Potential
Ability to connect with grid – High
Ability to seamlessly disconnect – High, constrained by storage options
Optimization of generation and load resources
Ability to dispatch generations – high
Ability to dispatch loads - high
Value Propositions - ?????????????????????????
A Framework for the Evaluation of the Cost and Benefits of Microgrids by Gerg Young Morris, Chad Abbey, and Chris Marnay of US: Ernest Orlando Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory helps in exploring value propositions.
I'm happy to join Part 2 of the discussion as an 'Expert Contributor', focusing on business models for mini-grids and what conditions are necessary for economic viability. As a Laos-based company focused on rural electrification, often in Least Developed Countries, our team at Sunlabob Renewable Energy has found that a profitable business model for mini-grids is a challenge for a variety of reasons, with one main reason being that our end-users are some of the poorest households in the world. When adding in elements encountered in many developing countries such as a lack of national feed-in-tariff or subsidy scheme, economic viability for mini-grids is an uphill battle.
To keep it brief at this stage of the Part 2 discussion, I'd like to point out a few critical aspects that can enable - but certainly not guarantee - a sound business model for mini-grids in rural communities of developing parts of the world:
If a national feed-in-tariff scheme doesn't exist, work with government and utility players to establish an agreement for your project. We negotiated Laos' first F-I-T for a private renewable energy generation for a solar-hydro hybrid village grid we established in 2007, which was a key aspect to the project moving forward.
Particularly when selling energy services to Base of the Pyramid end-users, a pricing gap subsidy from an institutional player like the IFC can be a necessary piece of the "viability" puzzle. For example, if your calculations determine that $0.24/kWh is your price point needed to be economically viable, it is oftentimes unlikely that payments from BoP end-users, and even the addition of an F-i-T, can meet that price point. We believe gap-filling subsidies from multilateral agencies can close the gap.
Keep the social aspects in mind when planning and projecting energy usage and payments. For example, in one of Sunlabob's village grid projects in Laos, we were forced to adjust monthly tariff rates so that our off-grid customers would be paying comparable rates to grid-connected customers in the country (a challenge in a place like Laos where grid power is almost all hydropower and incredibly inexpensive). After all, a rural mini-grid customer doesn't want to hear that he's paying 5x more for electricity than his cousin living in a grid-connected area of the country.
I recognize that each country is a different, unique scenario when building a mini-grid business model, so I very much am looking forward to hearing the insights of everybody else in this discussion and hopefully arriving to some productive, useful outcomes.
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Part II: Minigrids Business Models (May 25 - June 4)
Part II: Minigrids Business Models focuses on innovative business solutions that minigrids can provide to all three customer classes - anchors, businesses, and communities.
Focus Areas
Who does what in minigrid business models? Who finances minigrids? Who develops minigrids? Who owns minigrids? Who operates minigrids? Who provides repair and maintenance services?
What are the revenue requirements for minigrids and microgrids? What avenues exist for generating revenue from minigrids and microgrids? How are tariffs set?
Do minigrids need financial assistance to be economically viable? How can financial assistance be designed to support minigrid business?
What are ‘prosumers’ in the microgrid network? What business models can support their participation?
We are pleased to introduce the expert contributors for Part II: Minigrids Business Models. In this session, expert contributors will share their views on the technical aspects of minigrids and provide their insights on issues raised by all other participants.
Saifur Rahman, Joseph Loring Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Virginia Tech
Saifur Rahman grew up in Bangladesh where he did his undergraduate degree in electrical engineering. He did his masters and PhD work in electrical engineering at State University of New York and Virginia Tech respectively. Besides Bangladesh and the United States, he has lived and worked in Japan, Indonesia and Ethiopia. Saifur Rahman's teaching, research and training activities cover electric power generation, transmission and distribution, renewable energy, energy efficiency and smart grid. He has given lectures, offered training workshops and done projects in these areas in over 30 countries on all six continents. In addition to his work at Virginia Tech, he helps to run Akash Solar Engineering, a Bangladesh registered company, providing solar energy solutions for both off-grid and on-grid applications. Akash Solar is now working in Bangladesh to provide solar power for off-grid telecom BTS stations.
Terry Mohn, CEO, General Microgrids and Chair, Minigrids/Microgrids Working Group, The Energy Access Practitioner Network, UN Foundation
Terry Mohn is CEO of General MicroGrids, an international microgrid consultancy and developer. He also is Managing Partner of CleanSource Energy Partners, LLC, an international renewable energy project developer. He is also Program Director of the Global Microgrid Center, a non-profit microgrid test and certification center. He is Chairman of the United Nations Foundation Microgrid Working Group and presently serves a three year appointment as the U.S. Department of Commerce's federal advisor to National Institute of Standards and Technology in its Smart Grid Federal Advisory Committee. Terry has 30 years' experience in large-scale system architecture, business strategy, and technology investment strategy. Terry is an advisor to the US Department of Energy for smart grid and advisor to the California Energy Commission for demand response and emerging technologies."
Joseph K. Essandoh-Yeddu, Head, Planning and Policy, Ghana Energy Commission
Joseph Essandoh-Yeddu has a B.Sc in Physics and holds an MSc Engineering degree in Environment and Energy Planning from Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg University in Sweden in 2001. He had his PhD research at the Bureau of Economic Geology of the University of Texas at Austin, Texas, USA from 2006-2009. Whilst in Texas, he worked with at the Bureau as an energy economist. Joseph has been with the energy sector of Ghana since 1989. First as a programme officer for solar energy, then renewables until 1999 when he left for his advance studies. Upon his return in 2001, he moved to energy planning where he was the Ghanaian leader of the national team that produced Ghana’s first Strategic National Energy Plan (SNEP) 2006 – 2020. The SNEP is currently being updated to cover 2010-2030. He has been a member of Ghana’s negotiating team on UN Climate Change convention and Kyoto Protocol since 2005. He has head the Strategic Planning and Policy of the Energy Commission since 2003. Energy Commission is the advisory agency of the and is also a regulatory body that issues licenses for investments in the power and natural gas projects in Ghana. Joseph also consults for UNEP on sustainable energy and climate change issues for some African countries and does part-time lecturing locally, on energy and environment courses.
Andy Schroeter, Chief Executive Officer, Sunlabob Renewable Energy, Ltd., Laos
Andy Schroeter is co-founder and CEO of Sunlabob Renewable Energy, Ltd., a Laos-based company that specializes in renewable energy and clean water projects in developing regions of the world, including Asia, Africa, India and the Pacific. Mr. Schroeter has more than 15 years of experience with rural electrification initiatives in remote, off-grid communities and has been recognized internationally for Sunlabob's innovative approaches to creating long-lasting, holistic solutions for energy access.
Xavier Vallve, Associate Manager, Trama Tecno Ambiental and Member of Alliance for Rural Electrification
Xavier Vallvé studied Engineering at the University of Waterloo in Canada and received a M.Sc. degree in 1979. In 1986 he co-founded in Barcelona, Spain the engineering and consultancy firm Trama TecnoAmbiental, S.L. where he currently is associated partner. He has more than 25 years of experience in renewable energy rural electrification projects for distributed generation both grid-tied to the national grids and autonomous RE hybrid technology for islands and isolated villages. He has been involved in feasibility studies, engineering, project management and commissioning of many PV rural micro grids in isolated villages in Africa, Asia and South America. He has also been an active member in international codes and standards committees on this subject. He has been project director or lead consultant for private and government clients and also for projects by UNDP, UNOPS, UNIDO, UNEP, AECID, IDB, WB, EC and other agencies. He is director and lecturer of the Master degree “Master en Ingeniería y Gestión de las Energías Renovables” at IL3 (University of Barcelona).
Mohua Mukharjee, Senior Energy Specialist, The World Bank
Mohua Mukherjee is a development professional with over two decades of experience at the World Bank in Washington DC. She currently works on energy projects in South Asia and Africa, both on-grid and off-grid. Her specialty is the development of off-grid business models through commercially viable public private partnerships. She has a strong background in private sector/SME development and renewable energy, and is partnering in the development of an innovative, private sector led business model in Nepal at the moment, with a grant that the Nepal government has received from the Scaling Up Renewable Energy Program (SREP). Mohua has managed development projects for the World Bank in thirty countries.
Pepukaye Bardouille, Senior Energy Specialist, IFC
Pep Bardouille is a Senior Energy Specialist with IFC's Clean Energy Advisory Team. She leads work on energy access business models (with recent work covering an electrification roadmap for South Africa, and mini-grids development in Tanzania and India) and grid-connected renewables. Prior to joining IFC, Pep worked with the World Bank, and in management consulting. She holds a PhD in Environmental and Energy Systems Studies.
Daniel George Bauer, Doctoral Candidate, Florida Atlantic University
Daniel is currently a doctoral candidate and Instructor in the School of Public Administration at Florida Atlantic University specializing in procurement, program evaluation, behavioral finance, public-private partnerships and ICT Climate and Energy Policy. Mr. Bauer also has an Executive MBA in International Business and Finance from Florida Atlantic University College of Business. Mr. Bauer has over 30 years experience in the telecom and power industry sectors both domestically through AT&T and CBS as well as abroad through VirtU LLC and Quantum Group in development of partnerships and expansion and creation of smart grid ventures and operations. He is a Canadian and American citizen.
We sincerely thank the expert contributors for participating in this discussion.
I'm happy to join Part 2 of the discussion, focusing on business models for mini-grids and what conditions are necessary for financial, technical and social viability. I am based in India and also going to start work in a mini grid project for rural electrification with solar energy as well as for the Hybrid electrification of the Telecom Towers which are currently working in DG.
For the rural electrification with Solar Energy, Mini grid of 10kW to 100kW is required according to the number of the houses.
The Telecom Regulatory Authority estimates the diesel challenge as follows: “India has presently around 400,000 telecom towers, with average power consumption per tower being 3 to 4 kW. Assuming 8 hours of operation by DG sets, an average fuel consumption of 8760 liters of diesel every year per tower, total carbon emission on account of diesel use by telecom towers is estimated to be around 10mt of CO2, while the emissions on account of power drawn from the grid by towers is estimated to be around 6mt of CO2.”
This much combustion of diesel is not good financial and environmentally. After the Vehicles telecom Towers are polluting the environment by diesel combustion.
Generally a tower required 10 to 20 kW power . If we start the hybrid electrification with renewable energy i.e. Solar and Wind Power, it will reduce somewhat global warming and also can save Petroleum Fuel.
Hope any one of you have worked on the same type of Project. Please discuss here and let me know more about this.
Discussion » E-Discussion #4 - The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models
E-Discussion #4 - The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models
Description
Minigrids have been deployed in several developing countries for decades to provide access to remote and rural communities. These low voltage electricity networks supply power from renewable and non-renewable distributed energy resources and range from few kilowatts to few megawatts in size. Recently, ‘microgrids’ or minigrids with advanced control and communication systems have attracted the interest of developed countries seeking to improve reliability, resilience, efficiency, and penetration of renewables. The 'Anchor-Business-Community' (ABC) models are affected by reliability, resource allocations, and economic competitiveness of power systems. Trends and changes in minigrids and microgrids sectors will have implications for ABC models. This discussion will focus on minigrids and microgrids covering technologies, business models, and policy and regulatory environments.
.....
........
The discussions will be facilitated by Mr. Gunjan Gautam, ESMAP, World Bank
....
Gunjan Gautam has been involved in the renewable energy and energy access sector since 2007. His experiences range from working as electrical engineer in microhydro power and small solar home system deployment projects to contributing in technology and policy research of numerous multilateral agencies. At present, he works in SEGEN and ESMAP joint initiative on grid modernization and smart grids. He is currently developing a brief on minigrids and microgrids focusing on the evolving technological aspects.
The Anchor Business Communities (ABC) uniquely brings together three different electricity consumer groups - anchors such as telecom towers that value reliability and power quality, small businesses such as agro-processing mills, carpentry workshops, internet cafes, etc. that depend on affordable supply, and communities that are eager to get access to electricity. ABC business models create opportunities for rural electrification entrepreneurs to differentiate their products and services and improve their financial performance. This discussion complements previous discussions that focused on innovative business and financing models for rural electrification.
E-Discussion#4: The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models is an attempt to encourage interactions between experts and non-experts from minigrid, microgrid, and rural electrification sectors to shed light on technological, business, and regulatory aspects of minigrid and microgrid solutions.
Please participate openly in the discussions, share your views, ask questions, and gain insights from the expert contributors.
Congratulations to the World Bank and the organizers for a timely discussion on micro and mini grid.
Providing electricity to geographically distant or rural areas is critically important for any society. Several studies indicate that the long term cost to society of not providing electricity is much higher than the cost of providing it pretty much regardless of the technology. This is very clear in developing countries where access to electricity represents not only access to an energy supply to meet fundamental needs, but also a means for access to information and hence to education --the only mechanism to bring people out of poverty. The inter-dependencies of access to electricity, information, education, and development must be carefully designed for the program to be successful. The realization of minigrids can be greatly enhanced by private participation or participation of an anchoring program. The rules of the game must be clearly stated regarding revenue and value streams of the program and benefits to the parties. A win-win-win situation for investors, the government (and related agencies) and the population is possible.
Once a business model (which shall include a development model) is set up, the technology issues must be addressed. Regarding the question of weather to grid or not to grid, I must mention that networked systems are a natural consequence of requirements of reliability, option, and economy. Technologies must hence be compatible and have options for an eventual interconnection with the traditional (ac) grid. Thinking long-term is important. The cost of power electronics and inverters has come down significantly and plug and play components for connection of a DC minigrid to an AC system is feasible. Controlling and coordinating the grid operation is required for an interconnection and that requires sensing, communication and control. A proposition that could facilitate eventual interconnected operation is that the anchor program provides a basic communications platform for electricity infrastructure control.
When are mini grid economically better options than grid extension?
Opening remarks by Bhola Shrestha
Mini grid or off grid systems are economically better options to electrify isolated rural areas with small populations (few hundred households).
Example of Nepal Nepal is a mountainous countrywith thousands of isolated, small rural communities living far away from the road. The prospect of electricity gri reaching these isolated communities (and also road) is remote as grid extension
is cost prohibitive. As a result off grid micro hydro power systems has flourished in Nepal during the last two decades. There are thousands of off grid systems in Nepal providing electricity to group of households to entire villages of few hundred households. These systems are owned by individual, group, entrepreneurs, community based organization.
This service delivery supported by development of micro hydro sector
The micro hydropower sector in Nepal evolved during the last two twenty five years with the development of local
turbine manufacturing industry, provision of some subsidy from the government, credit facility from local bank. There are dozens of consulting firm that provide survey, feasibility study and design of micro hydropower plants. The construction and installation are carried out by qualified manufacturing companies and installation companies.
Pilot projects in Liberia
The experience of Nepal can be relevant to other countries with similar situations. Liberia has one of the lowest rural electrification rate (2%) in the world. There is no grid outside Monrovia, capital of Liberia. Liberia has small, rural communities scattered around the country, which makes grid extension cost prohibitive. USAID’s Liberia
Energy Support Program, implemented by Winrock International aims to demonstrate sustainable rural electrification through off two micro/mini hydropower (1 M and 15 kW each) and two biomass power plant (60 kW and 35 kW
each).
Microgrid technology is mature and can support small individual microgrids that are individually scalable, can work with a central grid system when needed and/or interconnect with other microgrids to create a network of microgrids. The basic issue is how to develop a low cost energy source based on locally familiar technologies such as automobile engines that can be easily maintained.
The basic microgrid source can be plug-and-play and not dependent on a central controller. When needed, an individual can walk to each source and change its operation point performing the function of a central controller. Each source should be small and have the same control functions. Adding more sources without additional engineering is key to expanding the microgrid. Adding sources should be no more complicated that adding additional loads.
See the article on microgrids from IEEE power and Energy Magazine published in 2008.
http://freepdfdb.com/pdf/a-larger-role-for-microgrids-are-microgrids-a-viable-46289473.html
Since this article was published there has been an explosion in the acceptance of this technology, but this is a result of over 12 years of research, development and commercial implementations. I am very confident that this can become a powerful technology for providing electrical access to remote and rural communities, but we must keep it simple and maintainable.
It is interesting to look at how provision of electricity historically developed.
In Scandinavia the national grid came into being much later than localized
mini-grids in towns and villages. In other words a town in Denmark would be electrified
through locally established means, typically local businesses and prominent
citizens would form a company or a cooperative to generate and distribute
electricity. Later national (first regional) grids would expand and absorb the
earlier established entities. The few still independent, locally (these days
municipal) owned, distribution companies in northern Germany and Denmark are remnants
of this way of electrification. The irony is that when looking at options for
under-electrified countries in Africa and elsewhere we tend to ignore how it
really happened in the north and assume that grid-extension is the way to go.
Yet as already pointed out mini-grids can work well and are often more cost effective.
Moreover, consumption of electricity is an "acquired taste" and often
(one of) the core cases for grid supply namely that lots of energy is needed
for transformation of the local economy may only come into existence after a
fairly long time of having access to electricity.
Dear Colleagues,
Thank you for participating in the World Bank Institute’s “E-Discussion #4: The Minigrid Option for A-B-C Business Models.”
The discussion has been divided into three sessions.
Part I: Evolution of Minigrid Technologies: Is minigrid the best solution for your ABC model? May 15 – May 24
Part II: Minigrids Business Models: Under what conditions a minigrid is economically viable? May 25 – June 4
Part III: Policy and Regulatory Environments: How can they affect your project? June 5 – June 15
We will begin the discussions with Part I: Evolution of Minigrid Technologies focusing on issues such as:
We are pleased to introduce the expert contributors for Part I: Evolution of Minigrid Technologies. In this session, expert contributors will share their views on the technical aspects of minigrids and provide their insights on issues raised by all other participants.
Robert H. Lasseter, Emeritus Professor, College of Engineering, University of Wisconsin- Madison
Bob Lasseter received his Ph.D. in Physics from the University of Pennsylvania in 1971. He worked for General Electric Co. until he joined UW-Madison in 1980. His research is on the application distributed energy resources and power electronics to utility systems. This work includes microgrids, FACTS controllers and DC systems. His research over the last 13 years has been focused on microgrids. This includes the basic concepts, technical solutions and commercial implementation. He is the technical lead of the CERTS Microgrid Project, a Life Fellow of IEEE, and IEEE distinguished lecturer in distributed resources.
Bhola Shrestha, Deputy Chief of Party at USAID's Liberia Energy Sector Support Program, Winrock International
Bhola Shrestha worked for Intermediate Technology Development Group (now Practical Action) Micro Hydro Program in Nepal in various capacities since 1990. From 1995-99, he was Program Manager for EU/DFID funded Nepal Micro Hydro Sector Support Program. He contributed to the design of Micro Hydro Component of Energy Sector Support Program (ESAP), which was the start of micro hydropower scaling up program in Nepal in 1999. He continued to carry out consulting activities for ESAP from my consulting firm Energy Systems during 2000-2005. During 2006-2010, his involvement was more on grid connected small hydro systems in the private sector in Nepal and tea industries in East Africa. From 2011, he has been working with Winrock International in Liberia in the USAID’s Liberia Energy Sector Support Program in the planning and implementation of pilot off grid mini and micro hydro systems.
Terry Mohn, CEO, General Microgrids and Chair, Minigrids/Microgrids Working Group, The Energy Access Practitioner Network, UN Foundation
Terry Mohn is CEO of General MicroGrids, an international microgrid consultancy and developer. He also is Managing Partner of CleanSource Energy Partners, LLC, an international renewable energy project developer. He is also Program Director of the Global Microgrid Center, a non-profit microgrid test and certification center. He is Chairman of the United Nations Foundation Microgrid Working Group and presently serves a three year appointment as the U.S. Department of Commerce's federal advisor to National Institute of Standards and Technology in its Smart Grid Federal Advisory Committee. Terry has 30 years' experience in large-scale system architecture, business strategy, and technology investment strategy. Terry is an advisor to the US Department of Energy for smart grid and advisor to the California Energy Commission for demand response and emerging technologies."
Santiago Grijalva, Associate Director for Electricity Strategic Energy Institute (SEI); Georgia Power Distinguished Professor Electrical Energy, Georgia Tech
Santiago Grijalva is the Strategic Energy Institute Associate Director for Electricity and Associate Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology. Dr. Grijalva is a leading researcher on power system control and management architectures. He has pioneered work on de-centralized and autonomous power system control, renewable energy integration in power and unified network models and applications. He is currently the principal investigator of various future electricity grid research projects for the US Department of Energy, ARPA-E, EPRI, PSERC as well as other Government organizations, research consortia, and industrial sponsors. His graduate degrees and postdoc in electrical engineering are from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
Anders Pedersen, Energy Specialist, AFTG1, World Bank
Mr Anders Cajus Pedersen is an energy specialist with The World Bank based in Nairobi focussing on RE solutions for East Africa. He has a particular interest in integration of RE into weak national grids and in off-grid applications of RE. He is a graduate in business studies and economics from Copenhagen Business School.
Xavier Vallve, Associate Manager, Trama Tecno Ambiental and Member of Alliance for Rural Electrification
Xavier Vallvé studied Engineering at the University of Waterloo in Canada and received a M.Sc. degree in 1979. In 1986 he co-founded in Barcelona, Spain the engineering and consultancy firm Trama TecnoAmbiental, S.L. where he currently is associated partner. He has more than 25 years of experience in renewable energy rural electrification projects for distributed generation both grid-tied to the national grids and autonomous RE hybrid technology for islands and isolated villages. He has been involved in feasibility studies, engineering, project management and commissioning of many PV rural micro grids in isolated villages in Africa, Asia and South America. He has also been an active member in international codes and standards committees on this subject. He has been project director or lead consultant for private and government clients and also for projects by UNDP, UNOPS, UNIDO, UNEP, AECID, IDB, WB, EC and other agencies. He is director and lecturer of the Master degree “Master en Ingeniería y Gestión de las Energías Renovables” at IL3 (University of Barcelona).
We sincerely thank the expert contributors for participating in this discussion.
Thanks to all the participants for sharing their thoughts. We have quite a collage of ideas in the discussion. Terry set the framework for the discussion emphasizing on terminology, grid independence, scalability, and smart grid and integration. I will summarize thoughts from the discussions.
On terminology,
On grid independence and integration,
In the discussion we have a case where smaller systems were aggregated to form larger network (Ander’s comment) and a case where they were displaced by grid extensions (Xavier’s comment).
My observation is that there is a lot of confusion among the practitioners on what a microgrid should be and do?
Practitioners in developing countries are more familiar with the ‘minigrid’ terminology – minigrids for providing access to isolated communities. Changes in the definition of micro-hydro (implying minigrids with micro hydro generation) in Renewable (Rural) Subsidy Policies provide interesting insights. Reclassification of these minigrid systems placed them in different subsidy brackets- a case of real investment implications of policy definition.
Definitions
2000
2009
2013
Pico hydro
upto 3kW
upto 5 kW
upto 10 kW
Micro hydro
3kW to 100 kW
5 kW to 500 kW
10kW to 100 kW
Community/ Cooperative Mini hydro
N/A
N/A
100 kW to 1000 kW
Grid Connected Mini hydro
N/A
N/A
Recognized in 2013.
Practitioners in the developed countries are more familiar with the ‘microgrid’ terminology – microgrids for integrating distributed energy resources and for improving reliability. However, there is no clear consensus on what a microgrid is and should do. A recent paper from Georgia Tech (Design Considerations for Microgrids with Energy Storage by Andrew D. Paquette and Deepak M. Divan) surveyed 20 most frequently cited microgrid papers and found
13 of them to desire Seamless Islanding
13 of them to see primary use of inverter interfaced generation
16 of them to include storage for fully dispatchable inverters
17 of them to emphasize energy arbitrage
I kindly request the participants to deliberate on resolving this conundrum. As we expect these low voltage networks to grow both vertically and horizontally, should we define them on the basis of functions they support and components they use.More important question is what different business value propositions do these differently defined low voltage networks represent in the A-B-C Business Models.
Following is a simple illustrative example to classification to further the discussions. Is such a classification necessary? If yes, how do to this better?
Microgrid V.1 – Single Rotating Generation forms Grid, inverters operate as current source
Horizontal Growth Potential - Moderate
Ability to add load – moderate, constrained by parameter of rotating generation
Ability to add source – moderate, constrained by parameter of rotating generation
Vertical Grid Potential – Moderate
Ability to connect with grid – moderate, contingent on control interface of rotating generation
Ability to seamlessly disconnect – low to moderate, constrained by horizontal growth potential
Optimization of generation and load resources
Ability to dispatch generations – low to moderate
Ability to dispatch load – low to moderate
Value Propositions - ??????????????????????????
Microgrid V.4 – Peer to Peer Connected Inverters form grid, droop controlled inverters, central microgrid controller
Horizontal Growth Potential – High
Ability to add load – High
Ability to add source – High, constrained by storage options
Vertical Growth Potential
Ability to connect with grid – High
Ability to seamlessly disconnect – High, constrained by storage options
Optimization of generation and load resources
Ability to dispatch generations – high
Ability to dispatch loads - high
Value Propositions - ?????????????????????????
A Framework for the Evaluation of the Cost and Benefits of Microgrids by Gerg Young Morris, Chad Abbey, and Chris Marnay of US: Ernest Orlando Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory helps in exploring value propositions.
Hello all,
I'm happy to join Part 2 of the discussion as an 'Expert Contributor', focusing on business models for mini-grids and what conditions are necessary for economic viability. As a Laos-based company focused on rural electrification, often in Least Developed Countries, our team at Sunlabob Renewable Energy has found that a profitable business model for mini-grids is a challenge for a variety of reasons, with one main reason being that our end-users are some of the poorest households in the world. When adding in elements encountered in many developing countries such as a lack of national feed-in-tariff or subsidy scheme, economic viability for mini-grids is an uphill battle.
To keep it brief at this stage of the Part 2 discussion, I'd like to point out a few critical aspects that can enable - but certainly not guarantee - a sound business model for mini-grids in rural communities of developing parts of the world:
I recognize that each country is a different, unique scenario when building a mini-grid business model, so I very much am looking forward to hearing the insights of everybody else in this discussion and hopefully arriving to some productive, useful outcomes.
Part II: Minigrids Business Models (May 25 - June 4)
Part II: Minigrids Business Models focuses on innovative business solutions that minigrids can provide to all three customer classes - anchors, businesses, and communities.
Focus Areas
We are pleased to introduce the expert contributors for Part II: Minigrids Business Models. In this session, expert contributors will share their views on the technical aspects of minigrids and provide their insights on issues raised by all other participants.
Saifur Rahman, Joseph Loring Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Virginia Tech
Saifur Rahman grew up in Bangladesh where he did his undergraduate degree in electrical engineering. He did his masters and PhD work in electrical engineering at State University of New York and Virginia Tech respectively. Besides Bangladesh and the United States, he has lived and worked in Japan, Indonesia and Ethiopia. Saifur Rahman's teaching, research and training activities cover electric power generation, transmission and distribution, renewable energy, energy efficiency and smart grid. He has given lectures, offered training workshops and done projects in these areas in over 30 countries on all six continents. In addition to his work at Virginia Tech, he helps to run Akash Solar Engineering, a Bangladesh registered company, providing solar energy solutions for both off-grid and on-grid applications. Akash Solar is now working in Bangladesh to provide solar power for off-grid telecom BTS stations.
Terry Mohn, CEO, General Microgrids and Chair, Minigrids/Microgrids Working Group, The Energy Access Practitioner Network, UN Foundation
Terry Mohn is CEO of General MicroGrids, an international microgrid consultancy and developer. He also is Managing Partner of CleanSource Energy Partners, LLC, an international renewable energy project developer. He is also Program Director of the Global Microgrid Center, a non-profit microgrid test and certification center. He is Chairman of the United Nations Foundation Microgrid Working Group and presently serves a three year appointment as the U.S. Department of Commerce's federal advisor to National Institute of Standards and Technology in its Smart Grid Federal Advisory Committee. Terry has 30 years' experience in large-scale system architecture, business strategy, and technology investment strategy. Terry is an advisor to the US Department of Energy for smart grid and advisor to the California Energy Commission for demand response and emerging technologies."
Joseph K. Essandoh-Yeddu, Head, Planning and Policy, Ghana Energy Commission
Joseph Essandoh-Yeddu has a B.Sc in Physics and holds an MSc Engineering degree in Environment and Energy Planning from Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg University in Sweden in 2001. He had his PhD research at the Bureau of Economic Geology of the University of Texas at Austin, Texas, USA from 2006-2009. Whilst in Texas, he worked with at the Bureau as an energy economist. Joseph has been with the energy sector of Ghana since 1989. First as a programme officer for solar energy, then renewables until 1999 when he left for his advance studies. Upon his return in 2001, he moved to energy planning where he was the Ghanaian leader of the national team that produced Ghana’s first Strategic National Energy Plan (SNEP) 2006 – 2020. The SNEP is currently being updated to cover 2010-2030. He has been a member of Ghana’s negotiating team on UN Climate Change convention and Kyoto Protocol since 2005. He has head the Strategic Planning and Policy of the Energy Commission since 2003. Energy Commission is the advisory agency of the and is also a regulatory body that issues licenses for investments in the power and natural gas projects in Ghana. Joseph also consults for UNEP on sustainable energy and climate change issues for some African countries and does part-time lecturing locally, on energy and environment courses.
Andy Schroeter, Chief Executive Officer, Sunlabob Renewable Energy, Ltd., Laos
Andy Schroeter is co-founder and CEO of Sunlabob Renewable Energy, Ltd., a Laos-based company that specializes in renewable energy and clean water projects in developing regions of the world, including Asia, Africa, India and the Pacific. Mr. Schroeter has more than 15 years of experience with rural electrification initiatives in remote, off-grid communities and has been recognized internationally for Sunlabob's innovative approaches to creating long-lasting, holistic solutions for energy access.
Xavier Vallve, Associate Manager, Trama Tecno Ambiental and Member of Alliance for Rural Electrification
Xavier Vallvé studied Engineering at the University of Waterloo in Canada and received a M.Sc. degree in 1979. In 1986 he co-founded in Barcelona, Spain the engineering and consultancy firm Trama TecnoAmbiental, S.L. where he currently is associated partner. He has more than 25 years of experience in renewable energy rural electrification projects for distributed generation both grid-tied to the national grids and autonomous RE hybrid technology for islands and isolated villages. He has been involved in feasibility studies, engineering, project management and commissioning of many PV rural micro grids in isolated villages in Africa, Asia and South America. He has also been an active member in international codes and standards committees on this subject. He has been project director or lead consultant for private and government clients and also for projects by UNDP, UNOPS, UNIDO, UNEP, AECID, IDB, WB, EC and other agencies. He is director and lecturer of the Master degree “Master en Ingeniería y Gestión de las Energías Renovables” at IL3 (University of Barcelona).
Mohua Mukharjee, Senior Energy Specialist, The World Bank
Mohua Mukherjee is a development professional with over two decades of experience at the World Bank in Washington DC. She currently works on energy projects in South Asia and Africa, both on-grid and off-grid. Her specialty is the development of off-grid business models through commercially viable public private partnerships. She has a strong background in private sector/SME development and renewable energy, and is partnering in the development of an innovative, private sector led business model in Nepal at the moment, with a grant that the Nepal government has received from the Scaling Up Renewable Energy Program (SREP). Mohua has managed development projects for the World Bank in thirty countries.
Pepukaye Bardouille, Senior Energy Specialist, IFC
Pep Bardouille is a Senior Energy Specialist with IFC's Clean Energy Advisory Team. She leads work on energy access business models (with recent work covering an electrification roadmap for South Africa, and mini-grids development in Tanzania and India) and grid-connected renewables. Prior to joining IFC, Pep worked with the World Bank, and in management consulting. She holds a PhD in Environmental and Energy Systems Studies.
Daniel George Bauer, Doctoral Candidate, Florida Atlantic University
Daniel is currently a doctoral candidate and Instructor in the School of Public Administration at Florida Atlantic University specializing in procurement, program evaluation, behavioral finance, public-private partnerships and ICT Climate and Energy Policy. Mr. Bauer also has an Executive MBA in International Business and Finance from Florida Atlantic University College of Business. Mr. Bauer has over 30 years experience in the telecom and power industry sectors both domestically through AT&T and CBS as well as abroad through VirtU LLC and Quantum Group in development of partnerships and expansion and creation of smart grid ventures and operations. He is a Canadian and American citizen.
We sincerely thank the expert contributors for participating in this discussion.
Hello,
I'm happy to join Part 2 of the discussion, focusing on business models for mini-grids and what conditions are necessary for financial, technical and social viability. I am based in India and also going to start work in a mini grid project for rural electrification with solar energy as well as for the Hybrid electrification of the Telecom Towers which are currently working in DG.
For the rural electrification with Solar Energy, Mini grid of 10kW to 100kW is required according to the number of the houses.
The Telecom Regulatory Authority estimates the diesel challenge as follows: “India has presently around 400,000 telecom towers, with average power consumption per tower being 3 to 4 kW. Assuming 8 hours of operation by DG sets, an average fuel consumption of 8760 liters of diesel every year per tower, total carbon emission on account of diesel use by telecom towers is estimated to be around 10mt of CO2, while the emissions on account of power drawn from the grid by towers is estimated to be around 6mt of CO2.”
This much combustion of diesel is not good financial and environmentally. After the Vehicles telecom Towers are polluting the environment by diesel combustion.
Generally a tower required 10 to 20 kW power . If we start the hybrid electrification with renewable energy i.e. Solar and Wind Power, it will reduce somewhat global warming and also can save Petroleum Fuel.
Hope any one of you have worked on the same type of Project. Please discuss here and let me know more about this.
Thank You.